Marlene; Spoiled Rotten

[kapitanprien]

Trying to bring this back on topic:

Silver: I don't think Gumby was being particularly judgmental, however. From the point of view of somebody who knew about the camps, and therefore supported their existence (not least by tolerating them and keeping her mouth shut), I can understand why someone who never knew they existed has little to no guilt in comparison. Katie was busy with family and, well, bombings, and I don't think she could or should be held accountable beyond the basic support/non-resistance of the regime.

I agree with you Silver. Just as my wife was busy with the family (we had two daughters) and the bombings as well - they shouldn't be held accountable either.

The guilt that entails is not the personal guilt that affects those of us whose lives were involved to a much greater magnitude. Even if she didn't agree with what Hitler was doing out in the open, protesting would simply have gotten her killed, much like anyone else.

I agree.

Just to illustrate how dangerous it was for ordinary citizens (like it really needs to be done ) - here is a link to my blog on my U-Boat Site: priens-u-boat-site.webs.com/apps/blog/show/4809963-treatment-of-u-boat-pows-excerpts-from-u-boat-commanders-and-crews-

[silver]

SS3, I realise you have a lot to deal with regarding your past life, and I do feel for you. However, Hitler's allies, his close comrades who organised the Final Solution, are more to blame than, say, Katie. Coming to terms with who you were must be horrible, but it doesn't make it all right to lay blame on Gumby's past life as an innocent girl, and that's how I interpreted your responses. I don't feel that she was judging you so much as explaining her own lack of monumental guilt.

No offense taken, and likewise none intended. It can be hard to read tone *noddle*

Thanks for the link, Prien, I'm taking a look at it now :]

[kapitanprien]

SS3: I thought this was also a forum where we were meant to try not to judge each other so we could heal.

This is what I had thought as well. I personally don't care for 'the blame game' as it helps no one at all.

[silver]

Apr 9, 2011 12:46:03 GMT -5 @kapitanprien said:

SS3: I thought this was also a forum where we were meant to try not to judge each other so we could heal.

This is what I had thought as well. I personally don't care for 'the blame game' as it helps no one at all.

Agreed. I hate to see people throwing blame around when the main issue at hand is that we all learn to cope with who we are and what we did or didn't do <3

[Storm]

Thanks Silver, and Sorry to Gumby too.

Do you guys ever try and find historic evidence for the existence of your past lives by any chance? I would find it alot easier if there was little or nothing about my possible one, as then what you get you know comes from source. Everyone has an opinion on the ones who were well known, so it kind of skews finding the truth out. My truth is that RH was not so bad as some portray him as. And I would now say that even if I did not even remotely consider reincarnation. I have read enough now to see there were many, many agendas and he too was just doing what he could woth what landed on him, as everyone was.

I think sometimes it is easy to get too into untangible stuff, lol. Wishing you guys the best of luck with your PL Journey and so sorry again. xx

[silver]

SS3, it feels almost like my brain is determined not to let me research Marlene! Knowing so much, yet so little about her truly drives me nuts. The closest I've come to uncovering anything is finding a photograph on an Auschwitz-Birkenau memorial site, with a young SS man whose resemblance to my husband is quite disturbing - it gives me shivers. However, it being a very old photograph, and there being only that one, I can't be sure. Nor does it come with a name, and I've never heard his name nor Marlene's surname in my memories.

I wouldn't want to be in the position of having so much information already available, though, not least because I'd doubt the veracity of it (as in, perhaps I'd read about them as a kid and it stayed in my subconscious) but because, as you say, it makes proving it to yourself or others that much harder. All this information's out there, with opinions ready-made from people who studied the person's life for years, and going against the grain based on something 'you just know' cannot be easy. In my own mind I'd always wonder if I was truly qualified to state an alternate opinion, or if this was all in my head :/

That said, I'd like there to be SOME information. Being able to find a record of the person would convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt, and perhaps there'd be some note of what happened in the times I don't recall. I think the holy grail of reincarnating is remembering an ordinary person, whom you cannot have known of previously, and then verifying their life. And of course... that's going to be very hard for most of us, for if we were famous there's no chance of it, and if we're totally bog-standard then finding a record's all but impossible. 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' springs to mind!

[Storm]

Totally, Silver!

You see in my other past life, I did have no knowledge of the person and was able to prove it over time by recall verified with documentary evidence. He was just well known enough for records to exist, but not that I had heard of him.

Because of the strange similarities between that process and the RH one I indulged that it may also be a past life, you see. And he does come to me very easily. But it was my freind that started this off by telling me it was my past life. she has been right about most other stuff when it comes to me, so I started exploring it all. In huge denial again though, as I really do need more proof, as you say what if I absorbed stuff I do not remember about him? We did not have books about Nazis in the house and I was never into Nazis. So I do not think that is it. He is not someone I would have chosen to be.

Luna has the smae thing with wanting to find evidence. It must be very frustrating to believe/know you were someone and not to be able to prove their existence. Yes, it really is damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[kapitanprien]

Silver: That said, I'd like there to be SOME information. Being able to find a record of the person would convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt, and perhaps there'd be some note of what happened in the times I don't recall. I think the holy grail of reincarnating is remembering an ordinary person, whom you cannot have known of previously, and then verifying their life. And of course... that's going to be very hard for most of us, for if we were famous there's no chance of it, and if we're totally bog-standard then finding a record's all but impossible. 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' springs to mind!

*laughs* Sorry - but I just had to laugh in a friendly way on that reply!

Even though I'm 'famous' - although ironically, my fame is overshadowed by the 'infamous' ones from the III Reich - not everything was in the history books. I really had to peel through obscure information that I had either stumbled upon by a miracle or that was strangely passed on to me.

[kapitanprien]

SS3: We did not have books about Nazis in the house and I was never into Nazis. So I do not think that is it.

That's how it was for me - I was never interested in U-Boats and the sea. I live in rural PA. So when I had the dream of being the U-Boat commander, I asked myself, "Where the hell'd this come from?"

[Storm]

Prien, I am responding to you on my channelling thread so as not to take up any more of poor Silver's thread. Sorry again Silver! x

[silver]

Hee, thank you, loves <3 I'll pop by that soon to join in

[Iseke]

Apr 6, 2011 9:04:29 GMT -5 silver said:

I found this board when I was searching for information on children's past-life memories. Mine are sparse, as I remember surprisingly little about my childhood, but one of the clearest memories is being eternally frustrated with the fact that I couldn't reach the counter-tops 'anymore', something my mother remembers me whining about with regularity. I solved this by climbing like a crazy person, but persisted in asking when was I going to be big again.

!! I felt the very same thing! Only for me it was doorknobs. I'm not sure if I ever said anything to my mum about wanting to reach them again, but I remember feeling frustrated that I couldn't do something I felt I was supposed to be able to do!

Anyway, phew, I've finally caught up! I was very moved by your story of acting out that Holocaust scene and being affected by it. It reminded me of an incident I had that was somewhat similar.

In the 7th grade, we were reading Night and the Diary of Anne Frank (on my own I was reading another book called Nazi Hunters as I was very interested in the topic but it may have been a little dense for a 12 year old, lol!) so the Holocaust was stirring my mind and soul a bit. I had this friend who, one day, told me she was dating a Nazi....a neo-Nazi I guess? I don't know. I said "ummm...what?" And she said, "don't worry, he's a nice Nazi!" I didn't really know what to make of it and decided not to pass judgment, as the kid didn't go to our school so there was no way I could have known either way. Well, as a result of her enthusiasm about this relationship, she started drawing swastikas all over her notebook. She'd ask me to carry the notebook around for her sometimes, which I did...until finally someone found out about it and both of us were called into the school counselor's office for a little discussion. My friend was pulled out of the room and the woman turned to me. I explained to her that I was NOT a Nazi sympathizer and that I didn't really know why I had been carrying the notebook...my friend had just asked me to. In my mind/soul I was screaming "no, no, you don't understand! I COULDN'T be a supporter of this, there's no way; I KNOW how serious the Holocaust was!" (This being years and years before I ever knew of my past life, because like you I found the idea of reincarnation hilarious and strange.) The woman smiled at me, this sad...knowing smile, and said she understood. She let me go, and that was that. I don't know what happened to my friend in regards to that situation.

So...your story reminded me of that, about how we both remembered it on a soul level without really being able to explain it to the people around us.

I am really glad that more memories/insights are coming through to you, despite all your recent stress! And your moment of connection about the pronunciation of Marlene's name...I've had little things like that happen and they are awesome confirmations, aren't they?

Anyway! I am waiting with interest, as always, for anything new you have to share!

(As an aside, I'm glad you found this forum! I was briefly a member at the Bowman forum before a server move/cleanup deleted my posts. I didn't really feel comfortable there as a member but through it I discovered the people who then made this forum, and here I am!)

[silver]

Eeee, I'm not alone! I've asked my friends if they had the same deep frustration and they looked at me like I was losing it. But it's genuinely one of my earliest memories, this confusion and impatience that I was too short to reach things. It's such a vivid and intense emotion, too, not least because I wanted to know why and when, and nobody would freakin' tell me! I hated having to constantly follow Mum about if I wanted to see things or pick things up, because I instinctively knew I should be able to do it myself. It's so weird to look back on now, but I think it makes sense. If I was suddenly unable to reach counters and doorknobs, I'd be so annoyed, especially if I couldn't remember why I couldn't reach them anymore xD

I'm sorry you had a similar incident, love I can really empathise with how bewildering it is to go from being not-really-bothered to 'oh dear God you people don't get it!' for no reason. For me it was just the sight of our stuff piled up; for you it was the idea that you were a supporter (if I interpreted that right) - our triggers, I suppose we could call them. It's so disorientating, though, to go from trying not to get the giggles or simply carrying around a notebook, to wanting to sob and shout - with no idea why.

I think at the time I put it down to puberty and pretended to be normal ;D

Edit: Oh bugger, I hit "submit" way too early, blah.

The little confirmation did give me tingles! I know it's not much, wouldn't dream of calling it proof, but the personal reaction is shockingly strong. I got all goosebumpy and shivery, and I'm sure my expression was something a smiley face can never adequately capture ;P

(Thanks, I am too ^-^ I love reading the accounts on the Bowman site, but I didn't feel comfortable posting. A few people are wonderfully nice and welcoming, but it's a big site and very overwhelming. There are also about eighty-billion rules that I couldn't keep straight, which had me worrying the few times I managed to hit the 'reply' button. This site, while not only helping me remember Marlene, immediately felt like a home, before I ever posted <3)

[Laurasia]

I am glad that no one decided to leave the forum & that this "off-shoot discussion" has been carried on in a seperate thread "The Guilt Factor". It is obviously one that needed to be discussed as the discomfort that it created echoes the healing that it can fascilitate for many of us.

All of that being said, this is Silver's thread for sharing her memories with all of us & it should not have been hijacked in such a way. Let's please try to keep threads on topic & create new threads for seperate topics that come up whenever necessary. Now please, Silver, feel free to continue sharing your memories with us as you become aware of them.

Sincerely,
Laurasia

[silver]

I actually had this memory earlier tonight. I took notes afterwards but intended to go to bed and write it in full tomorrow. But then all I could think about was how I'd forget pieces, so I couldn't sleep without getting it done! This memory was, while not very pleasant emotionally speaking, very exciting for me to have. In the background the modern-day me was going whee! and yay! even as Marlene was angsting, and I'm lucky I didn't lose the state.

It was early spring; the grass was thick and verdant, but there were plenty of patches of snow. The sun was out, but clouds drifted past it, alternating between bright sunshine and muddy gloom. It was early, around 10am or so, and I stood in front of a pretty shabby, small train station. There were other people on the platform around me, but I ignored them to the extent that I saw them only as vague, colourless shapes in the background - because, wait for it, Friedrich was there. He was wearing a black SS uniform and his cheeks and nose were red from the cold. I had a thick, beige wool-or-something dress on with some very thick dark tights beneath it, over which was a heavy black coat, as well as a hat and scarf, so I was quite warm - but I felt cold inside. We were saying goodbye, and it felt very sudden to me, though I'm not sure why. We were reserved at first, but I couldn't stay long as my father was waiting for me in the car, and when he encouraged me to leave, I was screaming inside my head I love you, how can you leave me? - as if he had any choice in the matter. I was determined not to cry, and we hugged and kissed, all the while I raged on in my head that it wasn't fair, taking him away from me like this.

Instead, I told him I loved him and he said it back. Head held high, I went back inside the station and then out, where a black car waited - it was bulky, old, and I'm pretty sure it had a driver (what the... how rich were we?). My father stood leaning slightly against it. He was tall, grey haired and skinny, with what looked to be a permanent frown on his face. I knew that he wouldn't ordinarily have approved of Friedrich, and I think there'd been some tension in the past, but he was an ardent Nazi supporter and considered my fiancé's job respectable enough not to complain about finances, which I think was his main issue. Either way, we had an appointment to keep after seeing Friedrich off, and he opened the door for me and walked around the car. I sat, staring out the window and trying to be mature and reasonable, but I knew that it could be the last time I ever saw my fiancé, and when I heard the distant sound of a train rumbling, I wanted to rant and rave and sob. As the noise drew closer, the memory faded.

I'm really psyched to have had this. It annoyed me a little that Marlene was so wrapped up in her relationship - as usual - that she didn't spare a thought as to the other people on the station, where I presume other SS men and their loved ones were also parting, or to the millions of other people who'd bade their farewells. It wasn't unfair for them, just for her! But I finally have a name (for a while I thought I'd have to refer to him as, well, Him) and a fairly tantalising glimpse of her life beyond Friedrich. Her father was austere, which I believe had a hand in her reserved send-off, and never spoke a word even though it was likely obvious how much his daughter was hurting. The car and the person driving it hinted at more money than I'd expected.

Oh, and with no idea if 'Friedrich' was a name, I went to Behind The Name and found that it is (it's probably famous, too, I'm just not very worldly ;D). And it's pronounced the way I heard it, too. I really don't know where that came from, to call the name unfamiliar would be to miss a great opportunity to use the words 'bloody unfathomable'. Anyhow, since I felt more like an observer - despite being in Marlene's perspective, as always - her angst didn't bother me too much. All in all... very happy :D

Oh thank bob, I can go to bed now. Excuse typos and senseless sentences, I need sleep badly!