Marlene; Spoiled Rotten

[Laurasia]

Hi Silver.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. I hope that everything works out okay with that.

As for your experience with the play....OUCH! That must have been really disturbing for you. To recall the exact nature of what you had, just moments before, found so very amusing & lighthearted. I guess that really put things into perspective for you from then on. At least you know better now.

Sincerely,
Laurasia

[silver]

Hi Laurasia, and thank you. She's contracted a lung infection so they had to take her off sedation while she's still got the feeding and breathing tubes in - I think 'unpleasant' in an understatement. But it was nice to see her look at me and communicate a little, by expression and by mouthing key words. The doctors have admitted that they don't know how to help her; right now it's a matter of antibiotics, and hoping the swelling in her throat reduces enough for her to be able to breathe unaided. I don't want to derail my own thread with it, though - it's actually nice to be able to concentrate on something else for the first time in days.

I did find the experience upsetting, more because of how incomprehensible it was - as you said, snapping from being cheerful to the polar opposite, for no reason. Even after seeing pictures recently of the piles of shoes etc at Auschwitz, I'd forgotten about this incident - quite deliberately, I'm sure. But it was the same sort of haphazard heap of belongings that set me off before I'd seen any of those pictures, which at the time just made it completely baffling. It also didn't help my self-esteem, being the weird girl in the class who freaked out about Holocaust stuff >_>

[Laurasia]

Hi Silver.

Oh I completely understand what you mean about having such strong & seemingly misplaced emotions overwhelm you suddenly. That was what I experienced in that Holocaust museum back in the 5th grade. At that time I was VERY far removed from properly remembering Hans' life & had virtually no understanding of reincarnation, so it was quite baffling for me.

Sincerely,
Laurasia

[Miss Bothmann]

I am sorry about your mom hon, and I pray that she gets better soon.

What a dreadful thing to happen with everyone watching. However, sometimes, that is all it takes..to be placed in a situation (real or otherwise) that could trigger some buried emotion that just cannot be held back. Do not feel bad for reacting the way that you did. I have a difficult time watching parts of Schindler's List...the Anna in me just breaks down inside.

[silver]

Thank you both *hugs*

The 'misplaced emotion' is exactly right, Laurasia. I was nauseous and crying, not simply from the horror of it, but because I had this heavy feeling in my chest, an almost physical feeling of guilt. Weird enough that I suddenly became so dainty and sensitive, but feeling guilty? Dude, my parents weren't even twinkles in my grandparents' eyes at the time!

Thank you, Miss B (can I call you that?). My mum's doing much better now, and while she's not going to be discharged anytime soon, she's not in the ICU anymore - that's become a sort of symbolic limbo between life and death to us. I've been visiting every day and she's now talkative, demanding things from home (I didn't think I'd miss that, but I did!) and cracking jokes. It's an amazing recovery :]

And yes! Having everyone see me freak out was something a self-conscious teenage girl does not need. I didn't understand it myself, so I had no excuses to make myself seem normal :P I've actually never seen Schindler's List, even though it's my dad's favourite movie. Mum would always just say it'd upset me, and with my odd aversion to topics about the Holocaust, I tended to agree. Someone on the board mentioned the film, I think, in relation to one of my memories, so maybe I should watch it - perhaps it'll jog something.

If Anna reacts badly, I suspect Marlene will, too. But I think that's okay for me. If subconscious memories of her have been with me all my life, which I suspect they have*, then giving her the floor (so to speak) might be a good thing. Sort of... give the Marlene part of me a chance to grieve and regret. I'm a firm believer in the cliché of embracing-the-pain in order to resolve it, and I really think Marlene was quite the opposite - someone who suppressed and went into denial.

Thanks again for the warm responses <3 I can't tell you how good it is to be able to just talk and reminisce.

*I found this board when I was searching for information on children's past-life memories. Mine are sparse, as I remember surprisingly little about my childhood, but one of the clearest memories is being eternally frustrated with the fact that I couldn't reach the counter-tops 'anymore', something my mother remembers me whining about with regularity. I solved this by climbing like a crazy person, but persisted in asking when was I going to be big again.

[Storm]

Hey! Belated wlecome to the forum!

I am so sorry you experienced abuse from your SS husband. It was not, sadly, uncommon. That type of work affects men in such odd ways.

I was never involved in the actual day to day running of the camps as I was on the administrative side of things, but I was pretty abusive to women, although not to my wife so much. Mind you, you'd be mad to have messed with Lina, I can tell you!

I am starting to have horrible recall about the way I treated women I used for sex, which is a pretty nasty thing for a woman to recall, particularly as I have suffered abuse and rape in this life, (very karmic). To suddenly 'remember' doing things I find abhorrent in this life has been one of the tougest aspects of my own recall.

Thank you so much for sharing these memories and welcome once again!

x

[silver]

Thanks, SS3 :] And yes, the abuse was something I knew had progressively worsened as my husband's work had gone on, and given the nature of the camps, it's little wonder that violence and mental instability became a direct result of his involvement. Though I, looking back, understand the cause, Marlene really didn't. She was naive in many respects, not to mention self-centred, and didn't - perhaps couldn't - understand what was happening to him. He was very vague about what he actually did in his day-to-day duties, perhaps to protect her, perhaps because he just couldn't talk about. I'm not making excuses, however, particularly because his penchant for being in control, being considered superior - the Boss of all situations - was always present, as were various forms of emotional blackmail and abuse. He could tear at her feelings with a single condescending look, and he knew that and used it to his full advantage whenever he wanted to. His involvement with the camp simply twisted that nature and brought it to violence and, I think, alcohol dependence.

I say "alcohol dependence" rather than alcoholism as I've yet to have any memories where he was properly drunk. He drank a lot, but it seemed to make him meaner and more solitary, rather than the usual drunk who stumbles around and eventually keels over. He'd just drink throughout his day, apparently maintaining the level of inebriation required for him to be at his most distant, and occasionally have a 'good night out' with his colleagues. I presume he came home pretty hammered then, and I imagine returning to me/Marlene and his home, he was confronted with his real life again. I doubt that put him in a good mood on those occasions, either. But I know for certain that he wouldn't like to be out of control - by his standards - so I'm fairly sure he could always walk. Even if the line was more diagonal than straight!

I have to say, it bothers me that I haven't had a true memory of Marlene without him. I'm not the sort of person who can handle that kind of dependency, that need to make "me" an "us" to the degree that one's own life is secondary to the couple. The only flash of memory I've had that didn't include him was a still-frame of two children; one blonde girl around seven or eight, one younger dark-haired boy around four or five, sometime post-war. I think they were Marlene's, but I'm honestly not sure. She was calling them in for a meal, and cared for them like a mother, but the blonde girl wasn't her daughter - biologically, I mean. Maybe a friend of the boy's, if he was her son... hadgagd bah! One splitsecond memory is infuriating! >_<

I've set aside some time for meditation tonight, once I've visited my mum. There's so much stuff to do in her absence that it's been really hard to relax enough to watch TV, nevermind zone out in search of past life memories. I broached the subject of reincarnation with her before the medical crisis, mentioning a child's case off Ms Bowman's site, and she got the shivers and everything - fairly open to it. When she comes home I hope to ask her more about any weird stuff I did when I was little, seeing's I can't remember much at all.

[silver]

Thank you again :] I'm just back from the hospital and she had three complaints that nobody but her nurses would listen to. One of them's quite serious (giving her pain meds with dinner - her neck is "crumbling", apparently a real medical term, instead of before dinner so that she can chew - thus she can't eat even though she's ravenous ><) so I loitered around the nurses' station hoping to speak to the staff nurse. He completely ignored me, just stood watching another nurse take phone calls ._. Then, happily, a young (and incidentally very handsome) Asian doctor came by and, er, seemed to take to me, so to speak, and pretty much ordered 'Frank' to do everything I said. It was pretty awesome xD

I can easily imagine the desire to drink oneself to death when working in a camp, and the very fact that Marlene's husband needed to drink to deal with it does point to the idea that, for all his sins, he was still very much human. The reason his silence about it bothered Marlene was quite selfish; she wanted to know why he was drinking, why he was taking it - whatever 'it' was - out on her. I think she was afraid, a lot of the time, that he just didn't love her anymore, or perhaps never did. I have to admit that I do pity that, while also being annoyed - he was everything to her, she wasn't able to leave him anymore than I'm able to swim on the Moon. I've always felt, and please don't hate me for this because I know it's horrible; I've always felt a certain... disappointment and bitterness towards abused women who stay in the relationship. Another irrational emotion for me, because I always understood the fear that motivates it, but couldn't help feeling that way nonetheless :/ Maybe Marlene's situation, even though I didn't know it, was my own motivation for that un-Silverish attitude.

The split-second memories are so irritating! The one with the children is such a well-formed image that I could draw it if, you know, I could draw at all, which I can't. Texture, smell, emotion, knowledge of what I'd just cooked, even a vague timeframe - but as to what's actually happening, no idea. That really winds me up!

I'll update if I get anything more when meditating tonight. I really want to find out about those kids - like I said, I've never wanted them and the thought sort of horrifies me (so un-maternal it's shocking) so I found this clip very intriguing. Oh, and SS3, regarding being male in your last incarnation; I was a tomboy as a child and the only PL I've remembered is Marlene, who was quite the girly-girl. I'm also bisexual where she was straight. I think your physiology and environment contribute more to who you are than who you were in a past life; some people claim that if you were a straight man in your last life and reincarnate as a woman, you'll be a lesbian. I really can't stand that theory; I actually find it a little derogatory, as though our souls are "confused" and think they're still the other gender.

Though I must say, the last person who brought that up was fairly stumped when I asked what gender I last was, since I now fancy both ;P

[gumby]

Silver I am sorry for the abuse that you suffered as Marlene, you were indeed the victim and your husband had no right to do that, regardless of his position or situation. I as Katie growing up in Stuttgart was fortunate to know only gentle men who treated me kindly. I had a love affair with a soldier in Vienna when I was there withe BDM. He was the most wonderful kind man, then he had to go back to the war in Russia. He never came back. I still feel distressed as I write this. After the war was over, I married an American officer that I met at an officer's club. He was a good husband. I was never abused. I know that this must have been terrible for you to have to bear this physical and emotional nightmare. How terrible it must be to have these memories, I hope that you will be able to retrieve the more pleasant times from this past life.

[silver]

Thanks, SS3, things are looking very bright for Mum right now :]

Gumby, I wonder if you remember someone on the Children's Past Lives site who asked you a question on your Katie thread? About whether she knew about (or how much about) the persecution, ghettos, deportation of the Jews etc? Yeahthatwasme. Your story was actually the catalyst for me to find this board. I apologise again if I seemed at all judgemental or negative - as you may have noticed from this thread, those were my issues coming out. It was my gut reaction to Katie's story that drew me to focusing my meditations on this era - it's hard to describe, but even though Marlene and Katie hadn't much in common, something about it pulled at me. So thanks for sharing your wonderful memories and helping me get started on mine :]

This is just a little thing, but I mentioned in my first post on this thread that Marlene's name was pronounced funny; Mar-le-na with a sort of... almost 'ai' sounding short 'e' and a sort of soft A and the emphasis is on the weird 'le' sound- okay, I also mentioned I'm bad at phonetics. Anyway, after listening to Lili Marlene (Mar-leen/Mar-laine) and asking around about how people here pronounce it (Mar-leen) I sort of figured I'd heard it wrong, in my head, or something like that. I went on Behind The Name to look it up, mostly to see if there was another similar name, but they've listed the German pronunciation as "mahr-LE-nə". It actually gave me quite a shock, because I can truthfully say I've never heard that before outside of my memories.

My brother came in just as I saw it and, intrigued by my daft-lookin' expression, asked me what it was. I told him, and he did an excellent impression of a startled goldfish; it's something we've never heard. I could've done without him taking this as concrete proof and wheezing "oh my God you were a Nazi!" but I suppose it's better than him rolling his eyes :P Like I said, 's just a little thing, but it's really... bizarre to me. I didn't get to meditate last night as I had writing to do, but I definitely feel motivated to work on it again :]

[Miss Bothmann]

Thank you, Miss B (can I call you that?). My mum's doing much better now, and while she's not going to be discharged anytime soon, she's not in the ICU anymore - that's become a sort of symbolic limbo between life and death to us.

Of course, you can call me Miss B if you like. I am glad that your mom is doing so much better.

If Anna reacts badly, I suspect Marlene will, too. But I think that's okay for me. If subconscious memories of her have been with me all my life, which I suspect they have*, then giving her the floor (so to speak) might be a good thing. Sort of... give the Marlene part of me a chance to grieve and regret. I'm a firm believer in the cliché of embracing-the-pain in order to resolve it, and I really think Marlene was quite the opposite - someone who suppressed and went into denial.

You are very right about healing from the pain. It will hurt like hell to watch and feel guilt from some of these topics, but it feels so much better in the end when we do not run from them anymore. Anna was true and loyal to the Reich clear to the end, and would absolutely hear nothing of "those rumors" of the death camps..or even the horrors of the concentration camps for that matter. However, watching movies like Schindler's List that accurately captures life for so many people in those conditions is very jolting to watch at first. The best way I can describe it is that it made "the Anna in me" realize that all of the people that she looked down on simply due to their ethnicity/religion were just as human as she was and that they didn't deserve to be treated in this way. After the fact it can be very enlightening, and I feel that I needed to experience the guilt to balance some of my karmic lessons.

[silver]

Thanks, Miss B

I have to agree with the need to confront the old part of you with the reality - we can't do it properly (which in this case is a good thing) but we can approximate it with films and books; stories that transport your mind to that reality. I know Marlene lived horribly close to a camp, but she also tried very hard to ignore it as much as possible - her amount of denial must have been overwhelming. That's something I'd very much like to break down, to really show her what it was she walked around, what her husband did at work, what she turned a blind eye to - what she implicitly supported. I think, for all her suppressed doubt and guilt, she still considered herself a good person. And she was... to the people she liked. She stood by as the groups she didn't were tortured and killed. The idea that she never faced that reality unsettles me.

I can't watch it tonight, I'm all jangly and emotional today, but I'll borrow it from my dad sometime soon and see what happens. I know it won't be pleasant, but I hope that with hindsight it will prove to be cathartic :]

[Miss Bothmann]

Please try to remember to let these emotions surface as they are meant to...please do not force them. You will only end up harming yourself, because after all, you and Marlene are a part of the same overall soul. I have seen it happen over and over (yes, I am guilty of this where we try to force our past life issues to come forward. However, what happens from that is we end up making ourselves sick..physically..emotionally...spiritually..especially at the soul level.

So, my advice to you would be to take it slowly..as it comes. I know that you are angry that Marlene never took off the rose-colored glasses...believe me I get that feeling with Anna's memories at times too. But we need to take care of ourselves too.

[gumby]

Oh yes I do remember you from Children's Past Life forum Silver, your question made me do some soul searching, and I honestly feel that I knew nothing about the atrocities that were being committed, so many of us civilians were wearing rose colored glasses.

I think that we were not so differnt in that time, Silver. We very well would have been friends if we had met. I also was from an upper-middle class background. I think that if we knew each other, I would have tried to get you out of that abusive relationship, just as I did with one other woman that I knew in Stuttgart. I remember that I was working at Königsbau Passagen when a man came into the court with a gun, yelling that he was going to kill his wife. I ran and warned her, and she escaped out the back before he could find her. I was so afraid, the man could have killed me, but I had to save my friend from this raging terrible man. It is terrible for a woman when she is trapped in a bad relationship with an abusive man.

[silver]

That's not at all a surprise, Gumby, and from your posts I ordinarily would have deduced that. But in my head, as I mentioned elsewhere here, there was always a little voice saying 'oh, so no civilians knew, they were all totally innocent. Riiiight.' Given Marlene's situation, where she did know about the camps, it's pretty clear where that nasty little whisper was coming from. I'm glad I know that now, because it's truly bizarre when your brain's randomly in conflict with itself!

I don't know if anyone ever did try to help Marlene be strong as regards her husband. I don't think she'd have accepted any help; I can't even see her letting anyone know she was being abused. The slap I saw was open-handed, meaning a larger surface area, and wouldn't have left a bruise. I'd imagine he was quite careful about how he hurt her. And she'd never tell someone outright; gee, they might think her husband wasn't the best thing on the planet! >_< It's good that Katie stood up for that woman, though. Having the strength of conviction to put yourself in harm's way to save another - that's something I revere.

Miss B, don't worry. My impulses are generally reckless ('I wanna know, and I wanna know NOW!') but fortunately I have a sensible streak a mile wide! I won't do anything provocative until I feel ready to withstand the possible consequences :]