Have you suffered the effects of "karmic trauma"?

[Laurasia]

Hi everyone.

Please excuse me if I ramble a bit, but I am trying to word all of this in the best way possible.

While not everyone agrees on exactly what karma is, how it works, or even if it exists....that is not what I am looking to discuss in this thread. So please, no one start in with lectures regarding karma.

I am simply trying to do some research here & would like to know how many of us former perpetrators/sympathizers/aggressors/by-standers/whatever-term-you-prefer-to-use from the Holocaust seem to have experienced something that could have possibly been "karmic trauma".

For example, in my own lifetime I have literally been held against my will, abused, etc. I'm not wanting to sound like a martyr or as though I was "punished" for anything I may have done as Hans by saying that (Who really knows how all of it works anyway, right? LOL!), but I feel that I can attribute at least some of the very real traumas that I've experienced to being connected to some of Hans' actions/inactions back then.

I only mention them as an example of the kinds of things that I am referring to when I say trauma.

*Surviving sexual abuse
*Surviving sexual assault
*Being wrongly institutionalized
*Being raised in an abusive home (sexually, physically, verbally, &/or psychologically)

Obviously there could be other instances of trauma that one might feel is somehow connected to their own lives as Holocaust perpetrators as well.

I'm just curious about how many members of this forum (who were Holocaust perpetrators) have survived a trauma that they feel is directly connected to that lifetime & what the trauma was. Of course I understand that not everyone is comfortable with talking about such things so, of course, no one needs to respond if they would rather not....& they certainly do not have to do so on the open boards. If anyone would like to reply via PM or email that would be fine as well.

This is just something that I was thinking about recently & I thought that I would ask the members of the forum. Thank you for anyone who chooses to reply.

Sincerely,
Laurasia

[Storm]

It's an interesting question, Laurasia, and thank you for asking it. You know my answer. I don't want to post about it but I went through a lot and even at the time I felt at a profound level it was somehow necessary as payback for something. For being bad in a past life.

Whilst I do believe that much of the type of abuse you have mentioned could indicate a karmic response or lesson, I feel it could be exploited if it came to be widely considered that those who suffer abuse were probably abusers of some description in other lifetimes. But from a purely investigative perspective it is a fascinating question and I would imagine there are abuse survivors in the ranks of those who feel they were PL Nazis .

One day hopefully all abuse and harm will cease. One day hopefully we will live in a world of true respect for fellow lifeforms.

[Demi]

First, it's completely true, for as the wise say "Karma is unfathomable". Supposedly we have mountains of karma from all of our life times and what we bring in this time is just a small selection of it - the good and the bad stuff we are meant to work on now this time. So even two people having been doing the same thing in the past might have a different content in their suitcases this time around, depending on everything else they have been doing, thinking and feeling individually. No past life is either black or white, and what is on our plate now is tailored to our own evolution (no one could handle it all at one time).

Therefore, it is said that karma cannot really be calculated by our small human brains. (And what SS3 mentions is due to ignorance: "You see the splinter in thy neighbors eye but you don't see the blue gorilla with a watermelon on your head" / own translation here... Unfortunately in places such as India, someone's "own karmic fault" is sometimes used as an excuse for social inequality.)

That being said, things do sometimes appear to be linked to the past, and I will mention a few examples of mine.

- Experiencing racism, discrimination, being a foreigner, held outside society

-Being bullied and extensive psychological abuse in school (because of that it def felt like wrong institutionalization all those years, parents/authorities not willing to help) the scope and severity of it resulting in deep traumas, clinical depression and several other things (PM me anyone if you want more details).

-Extreme sensitivity to certain things, including sensory inputs, totally paralyzing my life at times.

-Homeless for 6 years, repeatedly put on the street.

The connections:

-Researching my family history I found the origin to us leaving our native culture could be directly linked back to WW2 and the Nazis taking over our property and business back then (among others)... The shocking idea emerged for me, could it be that in my PL I had participated in the creation of my own destiny this time around?

-I saw that the person who bullied me the worst/most for 10 years was a prisoner in the camp who was a criminal, he was supervising the others and bullying them also... now she seemed to have similar traits (and some of that coming back to her having a violent father this time). She had this intense hatred towards me because of the punishments my PL Fritz did to her PL when she was misbehaving.

-The sensory sensitivity taumas I connected to Fritsi's participation in experimental interrogation training when he was a police trainee.

-I saw that my best friend Lora, a wonderful person, and fellow teenage Nazi Germany re-enactor, was Theodor, a fellow officer in the camp. She looked similar, with reddish hair, a similar personality and there was a similar, very close relationship between us.
Lora was a genius when we were 14, unfortunately, she is now living in an institution for retarded people, because she has an inborn disease which manifested when she was 18 or so. I never understood her having that fate (which she always knew about), now having seen her as Theodor I feel it's a karmic trauma she has to deal with.

I want to say she is a cheerful person in spite of this, always talking about our teenage years (but sad that she cannot evolve). I hope she's fine, haven't seen her for some years.


The homelessness situation occurred some years ago. Whenever I found a place to rent immediately something would happen completely out of my control and someone would put me on the street. It kept happening over and over, like a bad movie repeating itself, such as Groundhog Day... I lived like a bum, sleeping in parks, forests, tents, basements and occasional tenancies. Finally I felt wherever I was happy even for a moment, I was going to be kicked out & have my life ruined & not seeing a way out of the never ending misery. I remember camping on the beach and having weird people harassing me.

Some time ago in a PL kind of dream I saw Fritz participating in an aktion where Jewish inhabitants from Vienna are asked to move out of their apartments due to a new residency law (it was either in 1938 or 39). It was a bit shocking to see that because being homeless was still a fresh and painful memory.

This is my healing experience on this.

I feel the pain from being homeless in the past, running in the cells of my body as a stream of stressful memory. At the same time I feel a second stream, a painful impression on a deep level of consciousness - a twist/disharmony connected to the episode with Fritsi in Vienna. The two streams of energy are opposites: they now spiral around each other and erase each other in the same way as matter and anti matter annihilates itself.

All the best,
Demi

[gumby]

I was not a holocaust perpetrator but more of a victim of the war, having been held hostage then and experieced the destruction of my city. I think that I have also been a victim in this life, having grown up in an abusive home, my father was cruel at times and alcoholic. I probably still suffer psychologically from this. I try to keep a positive attitude yet there are times where I fall into a rut and the trauma from the past overwhelms me. I really have this fear of being beat up for looking at someone the wrong way, sometimes I still feel like the hunted. All I really want is to live a peaceful life and to enjoy what I've got, the blessings which I have been given in ths lifetime. But I feel like even this is under attack, I fear losing even this. So I feel trapped at times by this fear, I need to stop being this victim and move foreward into a more positive direction.

[Sunstar]

Ah, this questions is a difficult one. I'll try to answer it the best I can:

As a child I suffered from certain disharmonies at my home and a lot of quarrelling between my parents. My father was often verbally abusive, quarrelsome and misbehaving, also drinking too much. This situation caused me much anger, pain and fear, sometimes even hatred towards my father as he was the cause of the trouble. And because he was with me in my PL, I see this as a personal lesson/repeating pattern between the two of us. But I would not call it a "trauma", as it was not that hard after all compared to other forms of abuse a child can face at home.

There are some fears I retained from my PL. The most prominent one, being the fear of loosing my freedom in terms of being bound to an institution/ a group of people/ a task and/or a place, where I would be utilized, put under pressure and working without a benefit to myself (I hope I'm making sense here.) I was in a situation where I felt like this for several years in this life and it caused depression, anger at "God and the whole world" and the wish to either change my life or die. This situation was a real trauma for me and it repeated a few times in minor form. I see my extreme reactions towards it as a link to my PL. Luckily those times are over now, and hopefully something like that will not return again.

I have several connections to WW2 from my present life (which is quite astounding) that will always remind me of those times:

- The history of my family (my grandparents and great-grandparents): Their fate was the direct result of the outcome of WW2 and the events that took place after it in the areas where they lived. This is a complicated historical stuff, containing the intertwined relationships between Germany, Poland and also Russia after the war and until today. The story than goes on with my parents (also facing many difficulties, than leaving everything behind and making a new beginning) and finally with me. It confuses me at times who I really am and where I belong. Like Demi, I wonder if I somehow contributed in my PL to the fate of the people in the area where I come from in this life, and created the situation I am facing today.

- My place of birth and its complex history prior to, during and after the war

-My father's obsession with the Third Reich and WW2 related topics and all the stuff mentioned above, that would cause interesting but sometimes annoying discussions at home.

- My surname: It will always be connected with the war and Germany - luckily in a more positive way.

- Finally myself growing up and living in Germany "again", the education about the Holocaust and Nazi times, which was done very thoroughly here (at least at my school).

I feel it is my task/karma to deal with the history that is still around me, and to finally overcome all of that past and turn it into inner strength and positive things.

I wish everyone a Happy New Year!
Liebe Grüße
Sunstar

[Leutnantzursee]

Hi Laurasia - sorry, another late response!

Yes, I'd say I've suffered karmic 'retribution' for want of a better term, but sometimes I think I bring things to me, negative things, because of my underlying sense of guilt. I hope our lessons are more about making a choice to experience the other point of view, that seems a more loving way of seeing it, at any rate, rather than being punished, even by ourselves. :-) That eerie experience I had of sensing my blogger friend talking to me, when he said that 'now I'd get to see how it felt to be helpless' that brought it really home to me. My main guilt is over Lisi of course, my own direct contact with the Holocaust and that for me is very personal, as you guys all know I was never bullied at school, but I was bullied at home by a mostly cold, disciplinarian father (who incidentally shares Lisi's reincarnation's birthday ). I've been sexually assaulted and survived severe physical abuse in my first marriage. I've also met people who for no reason are hellbent on hurting me and bringing me down. I can safely say, that any ego I might have had in youth has been washed away, and maybe I needed that. I'm beginning to see how it may have helped, its made for more compassion in my life and dealings with others, but I feel fragile beyond words, at times broken.

The deeper we all go, the stranger it gets.

[msmir]

It is interesting. From what I have observed, many reincarnated victims and Nazis have suffered in similar ways such as being abused in one way or another.. it does not matter if it is sexual or bullying. Abuse is abuse.. and then you have the common issues with depression, anxiety, guilt (which is more so from the reincarnated Nazis but some reincarnated victims have that too, probably feeling like they could not have done more kind of thing), low self esteem, etc... I believe we are share similar karmic issues because we both were affected by the misuse of power, it does not matter who was the victim or perpetrator... we all were victims due to the misuse of power. Nazis were brainwashed and many committed atrocities due to fear alone, and of course the victims were... victims where all power they had was removed. I believe the common lesson is to realize we have the power to use it wisely among ourselves. We will go through these horrible things like suffering abuse, dealing with low self esteem, depression, and other lovely stuff, etc so we are given the opportunity to FIND the power within us to not only be good to ourselves but to help others and make up for what was lost and destroyed in our previous lives.. on either side. What do you think?

[Sunstar]

Wise words, Mir!
I agree with you 100%. And it feels so good and consoling to hear that opinion from a PL victim. Thank you so much!

I believe the general task in each and every incarnation is to find this power within ourselves, i. e. to find our inner strength and "light" which is always hidden in the core of our souls and which connects back to the Divine Source (or the Heavens, the Creator or God or Goddess, or whatever you wanna call it) where it originally comes from. Then, as you said, we have to use this power for the good of ourselves and others. And if we are given earthly power in an incarnation (like the political leaders or perpetrators), it's the task to use this earthly power in accordance with our inner divine power, and not to misuse it.

In the Third Reich people were faced with the most difficult and terrible conditions/circumstances of life, which made it so hard to find this inner power. These conditions made people forget about their divine origin, they made them forget even about being a human being with dignity, morals, reason and a heart.
(You can read so much about this in the accounts of victims, where it is told how victims were treated like beasts by perpetrators who behaved like beasts themselves, and that normal or even religious people started to behave like beasts among beasts just in order to survive, not only in the camps, but civilians in everyday life, too.)

Mir, I agree absolutely, that the Third Reich was a terrible lesson about the misuse of earthly power (starting with Hitler himself), and the loss of humanity and our divine origin. And I guess, for many souls it was traumatic to find themselves in these incarnations where they were so much cut off from their inner power/divine origin - either as victims deprived of all human dignity, and power being misused on them - or as perpetrators, brainwashed, under pressure and misused by more powerful people, or misusing power themselves for whatever other reason.

When I thought of Nazi Germany as a teenager, for me this was the most horrible period of time in history and also the most difficult one to live in which I could imagine, the one that frightened me the most. Maybe that's why it is sometimes so hard now to find our inner power and light again, because the experiences in those incarnations were so deeply traumatic for all of us.

Best wishes to all of you
(I hope I could express my thoughts in an understandable way cause English is not my mother tongue and it is sometimes a bit difficult to find the right expressions and words )

Liebe Grüße
Sunstar

[Leutnantzursee]

Ms Mir and Sunstar - you hit the nail on the head most eloquently :-) Don't think I can add more to those statements without repeating what you've already said. :-) It's certainly been true on my own journey, and learning to forgive my own actions back then, has been the biggest breakthrough for me, I even got a weird 'memory' feeling today, it was like a terrible anxiety, a feeling I must have had about being punished by 'God' for what I did to Lisi. I now know that Emil suffered so much remorse even back then and he died feeling this, so it imprinted on me, it explains so much.

[msmir]

Liz, I know you have had a rough time of it. It is difficult to heal from such a horrific recent past life but that is why we are here. To make that opportunity to heal. Sunstar, firstly your English is fine! Secondly you are correct that during the rise of the Third Reich it was one of the most trying times in history... and we unfortunately were affected, differently but were victims of the misuse of power. And I am glad I could give you reassurance. Connecting with one another like this is part of this healing process. Finding our inner light is I believe the biggest challenge that all of us face in this incarnation. As long as we keep moving forward, we will succeed. All the best to you