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Post by csillagfeny19 on Aug 11, 2010 9:03:06 GMT -5
Hi I'm new to the forum and I'd like to introduce myself. I am a 26 year old girl and a student in graduate school. I am also a reincarnated holocaust victim. I was a resistance member who was eventually caught, tortured, and murdered. I cannot watch any sort of torture scenes or whippings in movies, because I know deep down that I endured that and watched others endure that in the holocaust. I have come to grips with the fact that I died in the holocaust, but I still cannot comprehend how people can torture one another. The fact that so many human beings have been tortured bothers me CONSTANTLY. I also have not been able to recall specific details of my past life without help from others, probably because it would be extremely traumatic. I am happy to find this forum where everyone can discuss things openly, honestly, and respectfully. If anyone has any insight as a former SS regarding what I have mentioned, please share with me. I am shaken to my core at the physical tortures I endured and I'm not quite sure how to heal that. Thank you everyone!
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Post by Miss Bothmann on Aug 11, 2010 13:46:08 GMT -5
Greetings and welcome to the site. As sweetlunapie mentioned, the healing will come with time. It is definitly not something that will happen overnight. I still have my own demons to face regarding Anna's death, but everytime I try to regress myself to that to try to face it, I get physically ill. I guess that it is just not the right time for my soul to face it head on yet. I also agree with you on the topic of torture...it makes me sick. Not only torture of humans, but of animals as well.
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Post by Laurasia on Aug 11, 2010 15:48:29 GMT -5
Hello csillagfeny19. Welcome to the site. We are very glad to have you with us. As a former SS Captain & SD member I have to admit that, yes, torture was used in many different situations...to get information, to just plain be nasty, & to vent our own anger at a lot of things (& not necessarily against the person being tortured). Having been a detective I know that we used torture to get information. This will sound awful I know, but it truly does make extracting information quicker. Not that it is right, but it is faster. And we are talking about a group of people who had very skewed ideas of right & wrong. Some people used it because they were sadists plain & simple, though I have found those types to be a minority in actuality. Some men did it because they had gone insane, or were heading in that direction. I personally have recalled that process within Hans towards the end of the war. In many cases I have found that it was a means of venting frustration, anger, guilt, etc. Afterall, we were given ready-made targets for our rage & were encouraged to take our frustrations out on them as well. I am in no way trying to make it sound as though any of it was right, but you had asked if any of us former SS members recall any reasons behind the use of torture & these are some of the ways that I recall us rationalizing our actions. Sincerely, Laurasia
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Post by csillagfeny19 on Aug 11, 2010 16:14:00 GMT -5
Hi Laurasia,
Perhaps you could give me a little more insight. I haven't been able to actually recall my torture, so I do not know if it was quick or long. I hope for everyone's sake that the sessions usually did not last long. Do you think that I (or other victims) had means to mentally "check out" when these horrible things were happening? How did most people deal with this? What did most of the Nazis/SS feel when they were doing this to people? Did most people feel guilt or had the been programmed to basically dehumanize these targets? Thanks again, Csillagfeny19
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Post by Laurasia on Aug 11, 2010 17:00:00 GMT -5
Warning! Some members may find this post disturbing!
Hi Csillagfeny19.
Well now, I can't truly speak for anyone else regarding what they were feeling. I can give you my own thoughts though.
As for whether or not victims would have been able to mentally escape during torture, that would depend on the individual. Obviously torture was in no way confined to the Third Reich, as it has been employed for thousands of years, but I have often heard torture victims attest that they "went somewhere else" during the torture. Like when I (a survivor of sexual abuse) would "escape into my mind" while the abuse was happening. I suppose that most people have similar defense mechanisms in thier minds.
How did most people deal with torture? Honestly? Screaming, pleading, giving what was asked of them if it was during an interrogation session.
As I mentioned, I can't speak for others regarding how they felt when torturing people; but I can tell you how I felt. (Note that the circumstances surrounding the torture often dictated my own thoughts about it.) For Hans there was a distinct difference between torturing someone & killing someone outright. In Hans' mind killing them outright was much more preferrable as it didn't prolong the suffering of the other person or his own guilt. Hans did not tolerate rape at all. As I mentioned before though, as the war went on hans also became very mentally unstable & would do many horrible things out of anger, resentment, grief, etc.
Now I don't mean to upset you with what I put next, but you mentioned that you had been a resistance fighter & that would have meant you were put in for some hardcore interrogation. In those instances Hans saw nothing wrong with employing torture because (in his eyes) the person was a criminal that may very well be holding information that could get himself, his comrades, or his countrymen killed.
Sincerely, Laurasia
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Post by msmir on Aug 11, 2010 21:40:50 GMT -5
Csillagfeny19, great to see you here! And yes many victims had to fall into a place of fantasy to escape the torture. Not all though but many did. It was the only thing that kept them around. And the ones who did perish in that state, came back in their next incarnations (the ones who had reincarnated anyway) with the same state as they had left. That is why I find it so fascinating that many reincarnated Holocaust victims are under the autism spectrum or even ADHD. But from what I have seen, quite mild, more like Asperger's. That is because they may have come into this world being in their "own worlds" from escaping the torture, but because they are meant to engage themselves into society to start associating with others again properly. I also feel the Asperger's or ADHD or whatever is a protective mechanism for children to NOT remember their tortured lives (though not sure if it works that way for all in this situation). But as they grow and mature, the memories still end up coming back to them as they did to me. However, now that I am on this topic it's so interesting. My mother went to a pain clinic months ago and she told the receptionist about my upcoming book. The receptionist told her that she has a friend whose 10 year old son with autism started speaking at 7 with therapy, and the first things he talked about was his tortured life in Auschwitz, creepy, creepy, creepy!! So he must have remembered but could not communicate it, poor kid! Thankfully he can now.
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Post by mccoyxyz on Aug 12, 2010 9:43:33 GMT -5
In my view, you won't be able to make much progress until you step inside the enemy's shoes for a bit. Now, I'm about to recommend a rather long book, please don't groan. You can see more about it in my quote on Recommended Reading. Now you can choose to read it or you can choose to read any other dozen books combined. "The Kindly Ones", by Jonathan Littell. I admit I have not read the English version, which came out March 2009, but the French original "Les Bienveillantes". However, reviewers say the translation is very accurate. In this book, you step inside the mind, (first person narrative), of a fictional SS officer, who at Barbarossa Day was a 1st Lt and a Lt/Col by the end of the war. You see the Einsatzgruppen operating in the USSR, in ponderous detail; are encircled at Stalingrad during the depths of winter; conduct research inside Auschwitz (in a staggering amount of detail); and see the fall of Berlin up close and personal, with an ending so stunning, it haunts me, even 3 1/2 years afterwards. Do not read the ending prematurely, it will spoil the effect. This book took five years of research, according to the CBC French website interview with the author. It's unfortunately 975 pages, but there are places you can skim, such as the oh so tedious cultural conversations some of these officers indulge in. How do I rate it? Maxmilien Aue is the best single fictional character I've ever seen created anywhere. The level of historical research matches only one other book I've ever read. That's "A Suitable Boy", by Vikram Seth, some 1,400 pages, which took 8 years. Pick a time in life when you have some relative downtime; the nightmares will stay with you during and for a few weeks after. Oh well.
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Post by csillagfeny19 on Aug 12, 2010 10:57:47 GMT -5
Hello! Thank you for the book recommendation--I love historical books dealing with WWII. At the age of 15 I was devouring long works of historical non-fiction and fiction, which was my first clue about my past life. I think you are correct, that reading from an SS point of view will help my healing. The connection between Autism and death in a traumatic state is very interesting, and probably entirely accurate. Does that mean that because I am not Autistic/ADHD that I died in a peaceful state? When I was four I specifically remember having this "memory" of being left out in a swamp like area (dead). That's the only possible past life memory I came with into this new incarnation. Perhaps my body was dumped in a swampy area? I think those were prevalent in Belgium...
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Post by mccoyxyz on Aug 12, 2010 11:07:50 GMT -5
In that case, you might also consider "Spark of Life", by Erich Maria Remarque, which I read at age ten, the first serious book I read in my life.
As to the issue of Asperger, msmir and I have sort of agreed to disagree. She attributes it to reincarnational; I attribute my own to genetic, the fact my maternal grandfather was a famous scientist/professor, listed in Who's Who of that era, who clearly matched the profile for Asperger.
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Post by msmir on Aug 12, 2010 12:08:21 GMT -5
That is fine, we are all entitled to our own opinions and that is how I see it. I also believe there are karmic reasons for genetics too, you choose families who carry certain genes. However that is besides the point. You have your opinion and I do respect you for that. Csillagfeny19, you likely died in a state of acceptance and you knew what was coming. You may not have fallen into a state of fantasy or escape mentally. Not all inmates did as they may have found other ways to keep sane, and I believe that in that case they would not likely deal with what you would now call a "neurological" disorder.
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Post by msmir on Aug 12, 2010 23:14:00 GMT -5
Sane.. hmm not the right word, because I can't imagine anyone being sane in that situation but many inmates chose other ways to keep going rather than escaping within.
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