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Post by msmir on Aug 6, 2011 0:19:29 GMT -5
Hmmm I am unsure of where to put this topic but I felt it was important to bring this up! The other night on National Geographic there was an episode about parallel universes, or multi-universes and my husband is a Trekkie and watches Fringe.. and this topic has been covered on both shows.
So what this is that there is a theory that not only are there other universes out there.. but there are other "earths" and other versions of "you" living totally different lives. And in some of those universes "you" don't exist but your past life self still does! These other versions of yourself are living lives of different decisions that you had made (but in this universe, on this earth, YOU were presented with those decisions but never took any of them).. say if you had thought about going to two different schools.. and decided upon going to one here.. but in another universe you decided to go to the other school. And in some instances, other versions of you are living lives that you would not even dream of living here. Like for instance, because I am badly emetophobic here.. I could be somewhere out there as a nurse, cleaning up after the sick!
So here is my question... and we have ALL wondered this. What if the Holocaust never happened? What if Germany won? Well.. if parallel universes really DO exit... somewhere out there not only did those happen... but if the Holocaust never happened, *WE* may not be around (unless we died from any other cause or died naturally)... but our past life selves could be around, still.. living the lives we dreamed about living before the war happened. Or what if the victims were survivors on other "earths"? It is mind boggling when you think about it because you can think of a million different possibilities.. but then again, how can we really prove it? At this point anyway? Makes you wonder.
And in the National Geographic show, it said if you were to meet your "other self" from the other universe, you both would cancel out and I guess spontaneously combust! So the reason we don't really "know" is also a protective mechanism, so that does not happen and allow those lives to be lived like ours is here.
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brooklynfan
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Post by brooklynfan on Aug 6, 2011 0:58:25 GMT -5
Strange, I had tried to write a reply and when i put it through it said the post no longer existed... you must have been editing it... either that or I slipped into a parallel universe where this was a topic and then fell back into this one at some point... o.O
anyway, joking aside. Hmm, I will have to say that I respectfully disagree with you on the ideas of parallel universes. I cant say im a major proponent of the multiple parallel universe theories as they are currently produced. If you follow the particular line of thinking that most of the parallel universe creation theories that I have heard of conclude something along the lines of that a new universe would be made at each decision juncture. If that were true, if I sit here and flip a coin, or heck, if I mistype a word, we reach a point at which a decision would have to be made. Thereby with each possible decision another parallel universe would be made. Which would mean that in writing this paragraph, I have created approximately 8 parallel universes (for those that havent noticed, I have rather bad spelling) and that doesnt count the words that have been detected by the automatic spell check that i have turned on- after all, multiple universes would spring from each of those as well, from a point in the past where I had chosen to turn it on. And while I have been typing another song came up in itunes which I thought about changing for a moment and then decided to keep. What if I decide to skip the next ne... what if I decide to listen to it. Those would each create another universe. I simply cannot see this being something that would occur and I have never really seen any scientific evidence that would lead me to believe it would work like that. Plus, it simply is not... efficient and while the natural order of things is not always 100% efficient, it still runs better than pretty much anything man can think up.
So if a new universe is not created with every single decision, then it would, in order to work, have to be created from specific decisions... but what would govern those decsions? Is there some cosmic clipboard that some unnamed god is charged with checking to see if something is 'important enough' to split? I dont think so, and I would hope not, because that would be one boring job to have for eternity.
Now if you want to look at it from an energy point of view, then it may be slightly more possible. There are theories out there that "ghosts" as we know them are created due to the discharge of energy of some sort or another and what we see or feel is the remnants of that discharge (kind of like when you unplug a portable computers charger from the wall and the light stays lit, and then after a moment dims and goes out.) This would explain why there is a heavy amount of 'hauntings' and 'ghost activity' associated with places where a lot of emotion was expended and where many people died. Now there are those who believe that that discharge causes a 'rip' of sorts in the fabric of time/universes/what say you and what you are actually doing is 'peering through the curtain' While I dont particularly prescribe to that theory, I can see why some would find it logical.
However, I am also more than willing to acknowledge that 1) I dont know everything and 2) there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in my philosophies. Then again, im also content, in many things not to know exactly what causes some phenomena and to simply observe and glean what I can from what I see.
With that said, to answer your question... I dont think that there is a scenario of Nazi Germany that I can think of where the Holocaust didnt happen. While I think the Final solution was not something that was planned out in Mein Kampf like many believe, I do believe that it rather efficiently laid out a roadmap that led only to the eventual intended destination- The destruction of the Jews (and other enemies of the state). IMHO, the only way that the Holocaust could have been avoided would have been if the Bolsheviks had been the ones to gain the upper hand in the street fights first and had been the ones to take control. But I cant say that would have turned out any better, since the only ones better at Mass Murder than the Germans in WWII were the Russians. I think it was a complete catch 22 situation.
As for if Germany had won... many moons ago I read a book called "Fatherland" by Richard Harris which describes a scenario where German had won the war, and I thought, for a fictional thriller novel it did a rather good job describing the Nazi state post war (or not post war, because the state depended on perpetual warfare to keep itself running.). It is a book I would definitely recommend.
As for meeting myself and negating time... I dont think I really would have had a place in any of the futures, so its kind of a moot point for me.
Just my thoughts, Others opinions may (and more than likely will) vary.
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Post by msmir on Aug 6, 2011 1:21:57 GMT -5
Hi Brooklyn fan, firstly welcome once again and secondly.. yep I accidentally placed this thread in the wrong area LOL. But thank you for your input. Again there is absolutely no proof that parallel universes exist but at the same time scientists are finding some "clues". And honestly when you think about what "could" be going on if there are parallel universes, it would be more than just a little bit mind boggling. And personally I think if parallel universes DO exist, and we are not supposed to know about it then there is really no point in looking into it. But humans are naturally curious and if there was an idea created about it.. of course there will be others who will want to investigate this too.
And yes I have heard of that book. There was someone on youtube who created his own story about the Germans winning and it was most definitely chilling. In his story LA was the next Auschwitz to get rid of North American Jews. By some chance did he get that from "Fatherland"? Or was that just his creativity at use? But I think I may check that book out. Thanks for suggesting it.
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brooklynfan
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Post by brooklynfan on Aug 6, 2011 1:35:30 GMT -5
Not exactly. In Fatherland they had succeeded in the final solution and it was covered up. The story was about a Uboot man who went into the SD about the war and during a murder investigation starts to uncover the evidence they hid. Its a very good read, IMHO, and if you dont want to read, there was an... ok movie made with the same name starring Rutger Hauer playing the main character a number of years ago that sometimes ends up in the dollar DVD bin. Ill have to check out the youtube video at some point though.
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Iseke
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Post by Iseke on Aug 6, 2011 17:02:49 GMT -5
I have to agree in my disagreement of the parallel universes theory, primarily because even knowing about it would be essentially pointless to us (other than for the sake of curiosity). As brooklynfan pointed out, either we'd be splitting off in a new direction at every insignificant juncture (rendering infinite universes at each infinitesimally small unit of time, as decisions are being made consciously and unconsciously by everyone at every second) or we'd have some kind of system in place that CHOOSES what moments are significant enough to split off into new universes. That seems way more complicated and cluttered than it needs to be, for me.
It's not that this theory isn't possible, it's just that...I think more likely the real answer goes deeper than that. And I have to agree with fritzhollmann that on a soul level such events would be useless to me personally. If there were a universe where Irina survived the war or didn't participate at all, well, what does that mean for my current experiences? That Irina wouldn't be me.
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Post by rednight94 on Aug 6, 2011 18:04:07 GMT -5
I think the only parallel universes exist when we as souls create them in the afterlife to discover separate outcomes of previous lives. Therefore, I could relive my last life, but change the outcome beforehand so that I would not parish in the Holocaust. I also believe that in the afterlife we have the ability to create our own universes to live in simply for our own amusement. The only downside to this is the people we end up loving in these 'alternate universes' are only shadows of the actual soul. The only possibility to go through these alternate or fantasy lives with an actual soul is for that soul to agree to accompany you. This can all be very stressful as the lives are, in fact, fake. So a soul very well may suffer a bit of depression when they return to the afterlife and they discover their loved ones they just left were, in a sense, actors in their personal plays. Like I said, everything is a shadow of the reality we come from. I don't believe our fates can be changed, or that alternate fates exist in other 'real' worlds.
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Post by rednight94 on Aug 7, 2011 9:50:55 GMT -5
As matter is just energy vibrating at a specific frequency maybe it is possible to create more solid, "real" realities by way of the state of consciousness? And if others resonate with that vibration maybe soul families will one day be able to create shared realities which are more real? . Well, I believe that, in a way, Heaven itself is a reality. I think we all have our own personal Heavens we go to when we die. I've often thought about mine, and the thing is, it really doesn't have many limitations. People like to tell us that in Heaven we don't sleep, we don't eat, we don't do this or that, etc., etc. simply because we don't need any of it, but I rather enjoy some of the things that come along with being a human. I love architecture, so I often thing that I would have a very beautiful home akin to the palaces of yore. It's not a pride thing; it's simply because I really love architecture. It's one of the beautiful things we humans have created through the gifts we were given by the God, or the universe, or whatever you believe... Okay, I'm rambling. Sorry. As I was saying though, I don't think we have many limitations in our Heavens. I believe that their is a distinct possibility that our personal Heavens can be visited (and maybe even shared) by our friends and loved ones. It's your home, and just as any home, you can receive guests. Your Heaven is whatever you really please it to be. I know it may sound cliche, but that's what I believe. I also believe that there is a lot in our Heavens that we don't have here on Earth. A person can fly, breath under water, experience emotions and senses ten times as intense as they are here. And plenty of other things we can only really guess at...
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Post by pixarfan on Aug 7, 2011 11:24:27 GMT -5
Well, I believe that, in a way, Heaven itself is a reality. I think we all have our own personal Heavens we go to when we die. I've often thought about mine, and the thing is, it really doesn't have many limitations. People like to tell us that in Heaven we don't sleep, we don't eat, we don't do this or that, etc., etc. simply because we don't need any of it, but I rather enjoy some of the things that come along with being a human. I love architecture, so I often thing that I would have a very beautiful home akin to the palaces of yore. It's not a pride thing; it's simply because I really love architecture. It's one of the beautiful things we humans have created through the gifts we were given by the God, or the universe, or whatever you believe... Okay, I'm rambling. Sorry. As I was saying though, I don't think we have many limitations in our Heavens. I believe that their is a distinct possibility that our personal Heavens can be visited (and maybe even shared) by our friends and loved ones. It's your home, and just as any home, you can receive guests. Your Heaven is whatever you really please it to be. I know it may sound cliche, but that's what I believe. I also believe that there is a lot in our Heavens that we don't have here on Earth. A person can fly, breath under water, experience emotions and senses ten times as intense as they are here. And plenty of other things we can only really guess at... I agree. Michael Newton's books make the most sense to me, probably because he was a former atheist who asked his hypnotized patients what they saw in the afterlife with scientific inquiry, and pretty much all of them said the same thing, no matter what their religious backgrounds. When we die, besides meeting our lost loved ones, we can create our own personal heavens with our thoughts. The possibilities are endless. Anything one could dream of is there. There was one example in, I think, "Destiny of Souls" where a client says that he likes oranges, and can "create" tasting an orange in the afterlife. However, it's not the same as biting into a juicy ripe orange on Earth. That's one of the reasons why we come back. To "taste the oranges," so to speak.
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Post by rednight94 on Aug 7, 2011 12:47:17 GMT -5
On the contrary, I think biting into an orange in Heaven would be all the more wonderful. But, who know!
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brooklynfan
New Member
"You can't shake hands with a clenched fist."
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Post by brooklynfan on Aug 7, 2011 19:21:24 GMT -5
Hmm,
Im really not one for believing in "Heaven" or "Hell" in the traditional sense and ive never really spent a great deal of time thinking about the time between lives- I never seem to spend all that much time there, from what I can remember.
However, what you are describing reminds me a great deal of Richard Mathesons Novel (and the... ok... movie) "What Dreams may Come"
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Post by msmir on Aug 7, 2011 20:51:12 GMT -5
Interesting opinions. Thanks for sharing. And yes there is no proof that parallel universes exist. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing anyway. I am not saying no, but not saying yes either. This is the thing, we just are not supposed to know if by some chance it does exist. But brooklyn fan you just gave me an idea about creating another thread about something else, thanks!
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Post by Laurasia on Aug 8, 2011 15:00:06 GMT -5
Interesting thread Msmir. I have to say that this is just too much of a stretch, even for me! LOL! It's too fragmented, disjointed, & seemingly irrelevant for a soul in my opinion. That's just me though. I've lived a lifetime that I believe took place during the earth's last incarnation, so that may be too much for others as well. Sincerely, Laurasia
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Post by Miss Bothmann on Aug 10, 2011 18:29:10 GMT -5
Interesting thread msmir! I do not subscribe to the parallel universe theories either. I agree that if everything could be changed and "made better", there would be no true lessons for the soul to learn. We could all do whatever we wanted because somewhere on some alternate plane,"I" am making it all better. It almost sounds like one of those "too good to be true" options that usually are just that. However, I do believe that the universe itself goes through cycles every so many millions of years (or whatever).
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