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Post by mccoyxyz on Sept 15, 2010 9:12:48 GMT -5
I consider myself open minded in the male female exchange of information. Someone at work has to be, by default it's me. It's an environment 3/4 female and if someone didn't take it upon themself to facilitate the flow of info, it would be akin to South Africa apartheid. I can't help but notice the imbalance in these types of groups. Take "unlocking the door" for example, the only other guy posting is Peter. He's not a real participant, almost all his posts are either trashing or one-upping mine. I've noticed the same at New Age bookstores, visited about a half dozen times over the years. Not only a lack of male customers, but top it off with an oh so condescending attitude from the staff. (almost as bad as the reaction a clean cut person got back in the days when hippies ran all the health food stores.) So the $64 question in my mind is: do men not actually KNOW any of these reincarnation topics or do they just feel uncomfortable talking about it where it's mostly women? I feel utterly unqualified to even begin answering this, because, as previously noted, my friends are Indian, not white. So ladies, your input please.
What follows is NOT an attempt at a definitive answer, but merely a minor observation which might contribute to it, and hopefully get the conversational ball rolling. It has, in my view, at least partly to do with the styles of friendship. That is, by and large, white men (except in the case of war buddies), tend to have very superficial friendships. Talk is mostly sports and various gadgets, a real reluctance to talk about anything serious. By contrast, the friendship style of Indian men is very akin to that of white women. A very large degree of sharing, with almost nothing taboo as a topic.
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Post by sweetlunapie on Sept 15, 2010 10:14:48 GMT -5
Mccoy, That is a quite fascinating question! I'd like to add to your observation with one of my own. I have noticed that a lot of men who are interested in reincarnation are more interested in an empirical approach to the topic, as opposed to a spiritual approach. Their intent seems to be to prove this "theory." This is a a lead in to my opinion on your observation.
Most English-speaking white men are harshly oppressed in the social realm. This oppression forces a lot of men who fit the former criteria to display a (as you stated) superficial persona when relating to other men in their demographic. Sensitivity is shunned, and a culture of teasing and punishment is established, making an attempt to deepen a relationship...scary, for lack of a better word. Combine that with the stereotype pushed on men concerning interest in employment and academia (e.g., men should be good at math and science, men should be critical thinkers, men shouldn't do "women's work," whether it be laundry or nursing) and you have a poison. If men grow up thinking that it isn't "normal" to not be logical and scientific, how good are the chances that they will explore more spiritual schools of thought? It's unfair, and it's ridiculous. Moreover, in the Western world, there seems to be a stigma attached to alternative thought, or anything else that doesn't come from or cannot be proved in a laboratory. I can't take credit for this metaphor, but I completely subscribe to it: Science is a religion, but instead of priests, there are people in lab coats preaching the "truth." Can any lay person just reproduce any of these findings? How do we REALLY know that these so-called facts are truly facts? How do people of the general public know? It's an issue of trust and belief, in my opinion. I think that we're taught who it's acceptable to believe, and men are held more socially responsible to lead us to those conclusions. Therefore, if you have a white penis, society thinks you'd better get on board, or you'll be an outcast.
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Post by mccoyxyz on Sept 16, 2010 9:08:29 GMT -5
I would say you have probably hit the nail on the head. Not meaning to bore you with my own experience, but I find white English-speaking culture to be the most stultifying of anything I've seen. I'm a bilingual Canadian, French and English, have lived on both sides of the line, relatives in both. Clearly Quebec francophone culture is far more enjoyable. More of a collegial, collaborative environment as opposed to the dog eat dog competition of the Anglos. I've worked in remote Indian areas in northern Canada when younger, even that is preferable to life a la Anglo. My friends are all Indo-Canadians, and when I was married, it was to, what else, an Indo-Canadian.
Now, as for myself, I have of course zero interest in scientifically proving anything, but then I'm not your typical white man. So, it's not the fact of being a man or not, but more connected to being how thoroughly does the man buy into predominant English-speaking North American culture. And yes, I consider English Canada to be almost identical to the USA, small differences only. With a state of brain washing like that, I suppose one could safely assume that only a very tiny percentage are aware of karmic issues.
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Post by sweetlunapie on Sept 16, 2010 9:47:36 GMT -5
Thank you. I do wonder sometimes what the gender issues are like outside of the United States, as I've only visited Canada, no other foreign countries. I totally do concur with you on the Anglo culture, as I have seen and grieved over it a lot. The United States looks more and more to me like Germany did as the second World War was setting in...perhaps it's the backlash of the sexual revolution in combination with a shut-eye approach to feminism, turning what was once a drive toward equality into uplifting raunch culture, maybe it is the notion of a "common enemy" (meaning Middle Eastern people) that we are supposed to be crippled in fear over... Whatever it is, the United States has slowly been turning toward a very set social structure: women should be completely focused on being perfect mothers and perfect sexual beings (perfect bodies, perfect health, well-kept) with the focus on reproduction, men should be focused on being the perfect American worker, scientific, and strong bodied and minded, and both should be level-headed and patriotic. How do any of these molds foster deep thinking, (as you have mentioned) karmic issues, or spiritual endeavors? They don't. Plastic doesn't think, plastic just stays where it is put, and that's what it should do. I think that the original topic of this thread is just a very small facet of a complex matrix of social issues and gendering in our society. Please don't apologize for boring me with your experiences, because you haven't! It's interesting to hear your experiences! I think it's just awesome that you have found people around you who you can talk to. So many men have told me or implied to me that they feel that they just can't talk to other men about their inner thoughts. (Let's revisit what I said above: it may be that the men are too busy trying to look strong and women too busy trying to flirt, if you want to over stereotype. ) There are so many people aching to just have someone to listen, and that's great that you've found some! Agreed, too much brainwashing to look at the bigger issues concerning the soul is around and it's just tiring, almost!
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Post by mccoyxyz on Sept 16, 2010 11:21:32 GMT -5
From what I have read about gender issues around the world, in no place is there any exact equality. Places like Iceland, Denmark and Sweden come closest though. And in a sense, it's liberating to men too. That is if a woman is more free to do her own thing rather than having to conform to the stereotype, then so too is the man. So, if you're a man who's into the arts, you don't get the scorn from all the jock types. Do not in any way interpret my commentary as a criticism of the United States itself, merely a criticism of part of its culture. The USA still offers the best deal around, the most freedom to be had anywhere, the most opportunity to make something of one's life and not be stuck with the centuries old hidebound class system that so much of Europe is still wallowing in. And while I definitely was not for Bush, so too felt half of Americans. I'm proAmerican with a Democrat slant, but still against certain cultural aspects.
My overall goal in life is to make this my last time, not come back. Should that fail, I think I would prefer returning as a Japanese-American. All the benefits of being an American, none of the drawbacks of being white. And of course, a sub culture like that, which so highly values education, guarantees one at least a reasonable start in life. Best wishes.
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Post by sweetlunapie on Sept 16, 2010 12:35:56 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you on America still being the land of opportunity. It nearly brings me to tears sometimes, but this is no longer the country it used to be. Sure, there's not as much hierarchy in the form of nobility, as we have somewhat created our own nobility it still cannot be CALLED nobility, but there certainly is an hour glass formation in the social realm. I will proudly say I am a blue dog Democrat, but both leading parties are, without a doubt, corrupt and flawed. I no longer look around and feel the freedom to go anywhere or get any kind of job, as one cannot move without a job, and it is so difficult to find a job here now. Also, educational and employment standards have gone up so high, it's now hard to reach even a comfortable place. We're too competitative! Please, feel free to criticize the USA around me all you like; as long as you aren't criticizing me, personally, I don't have an issue. Wouldn't total equality be awesome? Too bad that will probably never happen, everyone being equal. Japanese-Americans don't have it so easy, though. They grow up straddling two cultural mindsets and get rejected from first tier schools because of their ethnicity (the schools seem to fill their Asian quotas pretty quickly). It's not easy for anyone. No point in looking over the fence because most people will probably see a better lawn than the one they're in, is my opinion.
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