Bund Deutscher Mädel

[Sunstar]

Hello gumby

Sorry for this late reply to your previous post. I absolutely agree with you and Laurasia that you were also a victim and that the German people was also victimized in a way. It's so sad that a lot of people today still do not understand that. When I was in school we dealt a lot with the time period of the Third Reich and the Holocaust. And it was very important for us students to learn and to understand how brainwashing and propaganda methods worked in these times. So we began to understand that the same could have happened to us, if we would have lived in those times. We would have behaved the same way most probably. And you cannot blame all the Germans, the civilians and soldiers, and especially not the young ones who were raised in HJ or BDM, for causing and wanting the war and Holocaust. They were all lied to and betrayed. While this realization is already accepted in German society and education, it is not accepted what Laurasia said: even some of those who were perpetrators were betrayed and used to do terrible things, and therefore they were also victimized in a way. But it is true. I also feel like a victim of those terrible times although I was SS man and contributed to the crimes of the Holocaust. If there would not have been a war and a Hitler, I would have lived peacefully with my family and girl friend. I would not have any reason to join something like the SS, and I would not have been in those horrible places, seeing and doing horrible things. It is really so good that we have this forum, so we can talk about and heal this aspect of us, too.
Only after I discovered my PL I could feel sorry for the German people as well. My PL experience also helped me to like my country. For some reason it was hard for me to do that when I was younger.

Liebe Grüße
Sunstar

[Demi]

Wow, it is cool that you were able to find all those places in Stuttgart, and locate which city it was! I also esp. like your article about Saline because it shows a little known culture and world she lived in from a very personal point of view - and I think this is really the charm of past life experiences, the richness of those memories, such as, a personal essay from the stone age. And the other two of yours are fascinating too.

For me, discovering a past life in Southern Siberia under the Russian Empire was like a lesson in history and the life of the people there, things I later found in the history books too, but which I did initially know nothing about.

And as you say - a personal account is really a way to understand how someone must have felt back then, and this is esp. valid with Katie - it's a way to understand what happened, in a deeper way. All past life stories, no matter who they are about, expand our vision about life.

And yes, perpetrators were victims in a way as well, maybe not as directly as the actual victims, but they were taken advantage of and manipulated into doing something bad. Misguided, miseducated. And there were "weeds" of intolerance growing in society, and those weeds weren't taken out, they were watered and fertilized... It's the creepiest part of it all.

All the best,
Demi

[Laurasia]

Hello Sunstar.

When I was in school we dealt a lot with the time period of the Third Reich and the Holocaust. And it was very important for us students to learn and to understand how brainwashing and propaganda methods worked in these times. So we began to understand that the same could have happened to us, if we would have lived in those times. We would have behaved the same way most probably. And you cannot blame all the Germans, the civilians and soldiers, and especially not the young ones who were raised in HJ or BDM, for causing and wanting the war and Holocaust. They were all lied to and betrayed.

Thank you for sharing this with us. I find it fascinating, & wonderful, that you are taught about WWII & the Holocaust in such a way over in Germany. It was not the same for myself here in the United States. There was no trying to understand or sympathize about how or why things happened. Just the fact that they did happen & it was the "evil Nazis" who did it. That is why I reacted in such a nasty way at the Holocaust museum when I was 10 years old. I didn't understand it then, but I do now.

Sincerely,
Laurasia

[gumby]

Thank you Sunstar, Demi, and Laurasia, it has been very comforting to read your replies and to have this affirmation of my deepest feelings about Nazi Germany. Sunstar, I am happy to learn that young people in Germany discuss Nazi times in a tone of understanding of that time of total victimization of the German psyche. It was indeed a tragedy for the nation which took so many years to overcome, yet today there is so much prejudice towards German people. It really makes me angry when someone shousts "You are a Nazi!" thus giving the impression that all who lived under the Nazi rein were all evil. It has taken Germany many years to overcome that perception, and once again the world can see all the wonderful and great contributions Germany has made in all fields. I do feel so good to share these feelings, it is like a great release for me, freedom for my soul from those burdensome times, all my BDM girls who suffered so greatly, and the children in all corners of ransacked nation. It was so overwhelming, and it all became a fight for life, just to live another day. Yes Germany has paid dearly for her mistakes.

[Demi]

Oh, Gumby, does someone call you a Nazi? I am sorry to hear that! Whatever the reason, who would do such a thing. I am cautious telling about past lives, but whomever I have told, have so far been respectful.

Yes, Germany has still a bit of a bad rep out there, to the point where I had some trouble dealing with the idea of having been German in the past, because of the way we have been brain washed also. The Sovjets would of course leave out all the bad they had done. Only now history research is opening up in Eastern Europe, showing how much evil the Sovjet Union have been doing as well, and it shows the war wasn't as one sided as they have claimed for so many years. To show you what I mean, no one in my family was allowed to speak of my great grandfather being German. They had to keep it a secret.

But there are reasonable people out there also. Especially in recent times. I am very open about my feelings, and I see that people recognize the good things about Germany, they have told me on several occasions. There is a theory now that claims that it is good to have ancestors from different countries because it gives you many "skills" or traits from different cultures. So maybe that is why the Americans are known to be creative in business?

One day some country folk told my mom they suspected that she is not Polish because she stacks wood in a very orderly way which a Polish person would not do. LOL! She had 3 categories and each in a pattern and if some of the country folk would dare take some she would know because the pattern looks broken. Probably her German and French ancestry coming through.

Nazism was a horrible thing that happened to Germany and the rest of Europe. It was like mold on the bread, doesn't mean the bread is bad... but we have to learn from the past.

All the best,
Demi

[gumby]

Yes Demi, I have been called a Nazi from time to time, even when I was a child, I would play army with the other boys, and I was always forced into being the Nazi for some reason or the other, I would always agree, as for some reason being the Nazi did not seem all that bad to me, yet all the other boys detested Nazis. This role play may have had much to do with Past lives, yet we did not realize that. I guess being the Nazi one became a punching bag, and they certainly pushed me around, but they could never briing me down, as I was too strong inside for them to become victorious. I actually think that some of them were Nazis too, as they certainly acted the part. I do actually see children today playing these same games, calling someone a Nazi and then making fun of them. Not a nice game at all.

Hitler laid waste to Germany, his agression ultimatly led to defeat and humiliation. Perhaps his soul is restless in this, and he too senses a need to heal the wounds which he inflicted. I have seen Hitler, and he did not seem like the angry, inhuman man which history has painted. When I saw him several times in a vision, he looked almost sad, perhaps repentant. Now that healing is taking place I think that he can rest, and perhaps move on to focus his energy into positive directions. Could that be possible?

[Demi]

Oh I remember playing Auschwitz an awful lot with my friends. We would do many characters and easily change between them - I always wanted to explore all sides of the story. But we had fixed characters also, one of the main themes was a Nazi girl who is friend with a Jewish girl and secretly helps her, and I would always play the Nazi girl. I have since had experiences of past life connections with my friends.

I have a pic of Adolf standing with a bunch of children, holding their hands.. he looks pathetic... that's sort of what he really was, I feel, unless when he went out on his madness/obsession.

All the best,
Demi

[gumby]

Yes Demi it is amazing how even our role play in childhood so closely parallels our past life in Nazi Gernamy. In so many of my activities that I did in childhood I now realize were reflections of what I was back then, wanting to conform to the expectations placed upon me by the state of affairs. Then again there was always my fears and emotions that went along with it, mistrust and fear of loss of dignity. I seem to live with all of these emotions now, tugging at my center, desiring perfection which always seems to be elusive. That can really add to my sense of frustration at times.

[gumby]

The end of the war was a terrible time for all, including us girls who serverd in BDM. The horrors inflicted by the Nazi regime were exposed, the death camps like Auschwitz and the images of mass torment and execution were difficult to deal with. I did not think they there could be such a places of horror in my homeland. The Nazis did not want the general population to know about the atrocities of these camps, and so most of us younger people in the BDM did not know about such things, and we were shielded from it entirely. Of course at the end of the war, when all the death camps were exposed, that shattered my trust and faith in the Nazis. We simply did not want to believe that it was true, moreover we wanted to run away and hide from the mass atrocities that our leaders had inflicted on innocent human beings. My life in BDM had been founded upon helping others, to help the needy, to help wounded soldiers, and give comfort to the victims of war. I knew at this point that everything Nazi was wrong, a complete mistake, tragic in every way. Yes I was ashamed, I wanted to hide away somewhere up in the attic of the house, nothing would ever be the same again, I closed my eyes and wept on that day.

[Demi]

Hi Gumby, I think many people felt like you, being promised something "great" and in fact being fooled and taken advantage of. It's sad how many soldiers were sent to the front when the war was practically lost. And how many were shattered realizing that our country does not give a crap about us who are rolling in the mud out there... or even wishing that someone would kill Hitler so we could all go home. We must send love and healing to our past lives, who were so abused and manipulated by the state, most of us so young we had no idea of anything else. We are all immortal souls with no fixed nationality. I died before turning 23 that life time, in a Russian POW camp.

This time around I am born in a country who suffered a lot from the Nazis. I used to be so raging mad at the Germans for what they did to my family and nation. Once I discovered my past life I felt it was such a bad joke from the Universe, but it has helped me to release those hateful feelings knowing how hard it was to live that life, and knowing it could have happened to anyone under the given circumstances. It also helped me to understand my deeply felt connection to Germany and fascination with the culture which I felt so guilty about... which used to be my home. My memories from that life time are so vivid that I can feel quite torn between my current and past lives.. when someone brings up the WW2 topic I do crumble my toes along with the Germans, as well as relating to my current life heritage, I feel quite schizo at times!

All the best,
Demi

[gumby]

Thanks Demi for sharing this, your words are very supportive and comforting to me. I also feel so close to Germany despite all that I experienced there in my PL as Katie. To think that I lived through all that danger and calamity which befell my homeland, I somehow survived absolute destruction to see the bitter end. The fear of not knowing what would happen next and having no feeling of security was difficult, yet that struggle seems to have been the foundation for a stronger nation which exists today. We do have to learn from our mistakes and forge ahead, and hope for a better time. Yes I did feel utter futility at the end of the war. And the realization of the horrors that were inflicted on others in the death camps was a wake up call to many Germans. This went totally against the ethical values of most Germans, and yet it happened in this mass hysteria which was beyond our control. The mind control exercised by Hitler was like a iron fist, and it was not possible for most of us to break out of that. In the end there were only ashes left of the third reich, and its evil oppressive spell was obliterated. You are right, Demi, it was long overdue and most Germans towards the end of the war wished for the end of Hitler and his Nazi state.

[Demi]

I perceive it (third Reich) as some rather intense energy which was pulling ahead and outwards... emerging from inside, or a point somewhere... and it was impossible to stop it by no single person, and lot of people being pulled along with it. Mind control is no wrong way to say it, but also on the energetic level something was happening in the county and building up and continuing to sweep up and gain strength until spilling over into war... pretty creepy.

And besides, to my understanding, it's not who you are or where you come from, but what you make of the given circumstances. As Polish hip hop artist Sokol wrote in his lyrics:

"Don't ever get fooled by the words of false prophets
It's not the Jew, or the fascist, or the eye of the providence
The only war you are fighting since ancient times, is the one with your own self inside of you
You chose to be on the bad side, or you wander the righteous path."

All the best,
Demi

[gumby]

Hitler came to power at a time when Germany was weak and deflated in the times after WWI and the depression. He used this as a springboard to gain control over the masses, as Germans believed that he would make the nation rise again to a position of respectability and power, and of course this worked everyone into a frenzy of hysteria, so yes there was this intense energy which drove towards complete power and control over the minds of the people, and by the time Hitler swept across the continent absorbing all the lands which surround us, it was too late, we had to follow and perform our patriotic duties to the end. It is interesting how the most grevious of evils does not appear that way in the beginning, and can present a facade of goodness and respectability. I think that many people began to realize that it was all wrong when the books were burned and basic freedoms were repressed. But by then it was too late to stop Hitler, and we were pushed into a war which many did not want. So in the end Hitler had to fear for his life, not only from our enemies, but also from his own countrymen who were plotting to bring an end to the corrupt, faltering Nazi regime. Hitler did not bring a creative force to Germany, but a destructive force which consumed innocent people everywhere. There was nothing left of Germany afterwards, only fear and loss of direction.

[Storm]

I honestly think that the movement was usurped by what I can only describe as occult forces. And I am being serious. I don't really go for a lot of "hocus pocus" as a rule, but in the case of how the Third Reich developed, and regarding Hitler himself, a really interesting book called "Hitler Black Magician" has some information about his hypnotic powers as well as other aspects. This is a review of the book on Amazon, quote: "The author presents a convincing case for Hitler being a black magician. This is a better book than the occult reich, by brennan. In this book, Suster shows the numerous links Hitler had with the occult, most notably with black magick. He shows how Hitler used various esoteric techniques to create a magnetic personality and influence the mind of the mob. This book presents some incredible claims, but whoever said that truth is stranger than fiction, knew what he was talking about. Although the occult has a sinister reputation, due more to ignorance than anything else, it shows what power lies in certain facets of its practice. Hitler proves this for all time".

The Thule Society were involved in his "programming", but that's worthy of a thread of its own. And post war MK Ultra mind control techniques developed significantly from Nazi techniques, and are still allegedly in use today. It is such a shame that the movement was usurped by destructive forces, because it could have been a positive one, had not paranoia, prejudice, egos and sickness of the mind taken hold throughout the hierarchy.

[Demi]

Yes, Gumby, the poverty after WW1 was a growing ground for the movement and many felt an optimism, more jobs, etc. The Nazis did a lot to improve living conditions but at the same time creating an oppressive police state.

Storm, I have been thinking something along those lines too, at least considered it. A weak mind can be more easily controlled by occult means. The minds of people of the time weren't strong due to several reasons, such as poverty, a strong authoritarian/ patriarchal culture especially in Germany (it starts with the upbringing, from what I know, Fritsi's father was very strict, and his mother rather subdued but trying to be very "proper" and hiding her feelings). Also, the established religion did not give people real spiritual strength. It did not include any way to teach people about how know your own self, or a direct contact with God, (the Church condemned such a direct contact), as well as sexuality (when used correctly, a source of inner strength) was controlled/demonized - of course a thing going on for centuries but the Nazi regime further did everything to remove women from public life (one prominent leader said if women were allowed in public life, the regime could not carry on its function, because women use their feeling level while men use their minds)... but the asset of that is that the feeling level is actually more in tune with "truth" and wholeness than the faulty human mind. Furthermore, women have an inherent instinct to protect their young from harm (even their grown up children) thus they are more prone to make peace and harmony promoting decisions in a community - some people now say that involving women in community decisions is the only way to make peace in the world. Men, on the other hand, are more prone to aggressive/competitive behavior (a resonance from the primordial "hunter" role perhaps). In countries who are responsible for war or domestic unrest, if you take a look at it, there is a correlation between women having very low status in these societies and the amount of hostilities. Including the Third Reich. The young men were educated and trained in a way to disconnect from their feminine aspects. They were broken inside and fed with lies, but it made them become the "perfect" soldiers. Just as Hitler wanted.

To me he was a madman but incredibly intelligent in terms of his propaganda skills. He could hypnotize people, I believe that too. I have a PL experience being at a huge rally. I am standing next to my friend Hermann. Actually we can't see much from where we are standing, but we can hear his distorted voice over the loudspeakers.. at some point something amuses me, I laugh to myself and I want to poke Hermann to tell him the funny thing, but as I look he is completely hypnotized, empty stare... I look around and see everyone else is looking the same way. I don't necessary intellectually understand everything what is being said, except Germany should be great, and the enemies should be rid of etc... also, there is an intensity there which connects to something frustrated inside of me. At some point, when everyone is saying the Heil I have an out of body experience, like being lifted up and seeing the place from above, a momentarily feeling of unity.

To sum it up, there really were a lot of factors which made third Reich possible, and some of those things are still around today. I talked with my German friend about this, she said she thinks there were demonic forces at play back then. And when we lose contact with out spiritual Self, as well as the harmony between the feminine/masculine aspects, individuals and society become weakened. Luckily and hopefully more and more light will be shed on these things in the future.


All the best
Demi