How do you view karma?

[Laurasia]

Hi guys.

Well, as with most other reincarnation websites, the topic of exactly what karma is, if it even exists, & how it works seems to be a fairly active one here. So I thought that it would be good to have a thread just for such discussions.

Anyway, my own view of karma is a bit difficult for me to articulate. I definitely do not view karma as something that is ALWAYS "tit-for-tat", though that is something that I have experienced in some cases. I think of it more as a ripple effect. Eventually whatever you put out will come back in some way, shape, or form. So it's a matter of only putting out what you'd like to get back later on. ;D

Sincerely,
Laurasia

[kapitanprien]

(I copied this from the thread you had on Resentment)

I don't believe in Karma, I believe in personal sovereignity and being one's own authority in that sense.

I strongly feel that the belief in Karma can be very damaging and this paragraph from one of my favorite spiritual sites/articles explains this:

"Belief in Karma Creates Suffering

At its worst, a strong belief in a law of karma can actually generate negative experiences in one’s life. There are many factors that could create a single negative experience – but combined with that belief in karma, one might begin wondering “what I must’ve done to deserve this,” which attaches guilt to the event. This guilt will attract more unpleasantness – and now we’re back to the vicious cycle created by the misguided idea of “deserved suffering.” Someone with a habitual victim mentality may well attract a person with sadistic tendencies who will abuse them – because they deserve it? No, because they can. If the targeted person feels guilt on top of their suffering (which is a tactic many abusers use to project the blame away from themselves!) they have only compounded their problem. As we have seen, suffering balances nothing and benefits nobody, because it tends to radiate outward and produce more suffering. Does this sound like an ordeal worth putting yourself through, over a supposed offense you don’t remember committing, that you can’t even verify? Hopefully not!

Another important factor to consider are the true psychopaths – people and entities who most would think have accumulated some heavy karma if anyone has, by deliberately causing others to suffer.

However, the existence of this condition throws another monkey wrench into the wheel of karma itself. If someone literally has no conscience, then no amount of karmic backlash is going to give them one, or turn them into anything other than a psychopath. If that person were to hypothetically incarnate again without the psychopathy, their problem is already solved, and the backlash would fall on someone whose fundamental nature is not capable of committing the original offenses, and who has no awareness of having done so in the past. Once again: no balance or divine justice to be found here."

From the article 'Rethinking Karma':

beyond-within.com/blog/energy-work/rethinking-karma/

I still can't buy into the belief of some sort of 'cosmic justice system' so this is where I differ radically from many 'spiritual' folks. It's my view that you cannot have unconditional love on the one hand and then some sort of 'punishment' on the other. It just doesn't make sense to me. It goes along the lines of, say the Christian religion for example, to have an all-powerful loving God...but then this God turns around and punishes souls in a place called Hell.

There's just way too many factors and one of the biggest ones is our biological make up (which the article mentioned). There are those who are 'criminally insane', etc.

I agree to an extent with your views on coincidences simply because I've been going through plenty of my own to realize there is 'something' going on here with me. But I don't want to fill in the blanks by subscribing to a belief just for the sake of 'filling in the blank'...I'd much rather leave the blank open and therefore leave my mind open as I realize thoughts, particularly on the subconscious level, are very powerful.

I do realize that the word itself 'Karma' simply means 'act' or 'action' and that it isn't labeled as 'good' or 'bad' but is simply an 'act' or 'action' and that human judgement designates (for lack of better word) that 'act' as good or bad. Simply put - the act is not good or bad - human judgement categorizes it as good or bad. When one steps out of the 'dual' thinking (something that's not easy to do - and I've only managed to get that far by doing Shadow Self integration) it is 'easier' to 'understand' the 'bigger picture' even if only in a small way.

I don't want it to be understood that I condone murder, etc. but I'm stepping out of the black/white - good/evil way of thinking.

I think Iseke said it best:

Freewill, conscious experience and exploration, and so many other things just make it much more complex than a neat and easy binary and linear system of judgments, lessons, ladders (like the corporate ladder only spiritual) and so on with which to view the universe.

We're 'only human' in a sense in that our human minds work on a 'finite' level (at least while incarnated) and I feel that the unseen world is just way too far out of our understanding to have such a system.

(I had understood the use of the word as Iseke used it - trauma, and as others have used it - connections to someone - spiritual connections.)

Iseke: Think about it: if I had just been receiving cosmic justice by dying in the Holocaust, that would make the Nazis the karma police, right? So what would they have done wrong then, if they were simply enforcing the karmic justice system?

Iseke brings up a very interesting point with this...and simply with that statement right there, as far as I'm concerned, it really blows the whole idea of 'Karmic Justice' right out of the water.

[Miss Bothmann]

I very much believe in the law of karma, but at the same time I do not think that every little thing that happens in your life has karmic balance attached to it. Obviously, in this life I am striving to be the best person that I can be to add some counterweight to things I have been guilty of in other lives. The funny thing is is that I do not even have a draw to act any other way.

[Storm]

Wow, this is an interesting topic.

I feel strongly that ultimately we judge ourselves. However there will always be cause and effect, which makes it even more imperative to be guided by whatever helps a being to make the right choices, (right in a broader definition to just right on one level). This is such a complex one isn't it?

I am only just coming to terms with in all probablility having been a senior SS man in my lost recent past life. I have sat here and wondered how on earth did I end up here in my present life? I am such a happy person. It doesn't seem right. I have had terrible stuff happen to me, (as so many people have), but it never dampens my spirits for long. I am so grateful and every day I acknowledge that.

Dear Msmir gave me the most amazing reading the other day. I am so very grateful to her. If I have been given a second chance and a chance to try my hardest to help heal some of the pain of the Holocaust then it just adds to my feeling of gratitude.

What I struggle with is how am I allowed to be happy? I guess I can see the logic in it if I am to help, since I guess I would be no good to anyone miserable.

For me Karma is like reflections from the past. Stuff from the past is reflected in the lives we have now, but I do feel that to a degree we experience what we need to in order to make best use of our skills and learn what we need to. I agree with Laurasia that Karma is not all about being 'tit for tat'. Although I think it can have a very strong sense of the sardonic at times!

x

[silver]

Honestly, I'm not sure I believe in karma.

I've been studying (in a non-academic way, obviously) the phenomenon of Near Death Experiences for a few years, and one thing that's always come up is the life review - nine times out of ten, it's a panoramic review of all the good things and bad things you've done, only you experience their effect in the people you did them to. That empathy grants the experiencer understanding - and means that they judge their lives themselves. Children who remember past lives and the 'in-between' talk about choosing their parents, which is reinforced in NDE accounts where the experiencer remembers that they chose their life specifically, to learn particular lessons.

I don't believe there's any kind of punishment, to be honest. The worst that can happen to a soul is they're bound to, erm, a 'lower vibrational realm' with people of similar soul-levels, and apparently it's somewhat less awesome - but it's hardly hellish. So the guilt-inducing idea of suffering in this life for wrongs in our past lives doesn't seem likely or healthy or fair to me, and wishing someone bad was born into a terrible life is simply vengeance. If we're our own judges, and we choose our own lives, karma's not really involved.

For example; as Marlene I was shallow and selfish, and I think walking on that side taught my soul a powerful lesson - I've always tried to be the opposite. I was born into a life that saw me become my mother's carer at an early age, which taught me that looking after others is hard, but completely worthwhile - a different set of lessons from that of Marlene's life. When I die and review what I've done, the rights and the wrongs and the lessons I've taken to heart, it'll help me choose a new life where I can learn something different.

So I guess the only karma I believe in is one of soul-evolution; we judge ourselves, but we don't punish ourselves, and no cosmic force will beat you up in a new incarnation for what you did in the last one. I believe we all need to do good and bad for our souls to truly understand, with clarity and perspective, the way forward and the things we still need to learn.

There's my two pence ^-^;

[kapitanprien]

Silver: I believe we all need to do good and bad for our souls to truly understand, with clarity and perspective, the way forward and the things we still need to learn.

Since you and someone else here brought up judging ourselves - I wonder what would happen if people did Shadow Self integration which negates 'self judgement' on a subconscious level.

In a nutshell - Shadow Self integration can be done for many things (soul retrieval is one) but it also is about integrating the 'dark aspects' of one's psyche to be 'Whole' (to encompass both 'polarities' of 'dark' and 'light') and in the end to love one self unconditionally.

I'm curious as to what others think of this. If people want to know more about Shadow Self integration, let me know, but I'll just ask the question first.

[silver]

Kapitan - I'm afraid I don't believe in that concept, hence for me it provides no conflict with the opinion I stated ;] I'm not talking about self-judgement in an incarnation, but between lives during the Life Review segment of a Near Death Experience. It's an evaluation of the life you've led, the good as well as the bad, which helps you decide what kind of incarnation to choose next. Learning to love your whole self while alive is certainly a worthy endeavour, and perhaps one of the chosen challenges, but I don't think it negates the impact of the life review.

See, appreciating yourself for having flaws and darkness is good - but the life review shows you your actions from the perspective of those you enacted them upon. Their feelings; what they did afterwards; how that impacted others - things you can't feel and rarely know when alive. I think, regardless of the opinion of self, this provides a completely new angle in which to consider your own growth.

[kapitanprien]

Oh ok I understand what you're saying. I'm the opposite of you then in a sense that I don't believe in 'life reviews' and my focus is slanted more towards taking care of things while alive.

I don't believe people choose their next incarnations either. You have to understand that as an Agnostic - I'm the notorious 'I don't know' type and will not believe anything unless directly experienced.

When I was healing this body I worked with Shadow Self integration to help it heal and do soul retrieval too.

[msmir]

SSkarma thank you and so glad I helped And I am on the same page as you in regards to karma. We do judge ourselves in the end and if "tit for tat" is how we feel we will learn our lessons and balance the order of the universe, then that is what we will experience but yes again I don't believe karma has to work that way. If you murdered someone in a past life say... it does not mean that you will be murdered or have a loved one murdered.. if you know on a soul level that is not how you will learn your lesson properly then it won't happen, balance would be achieved or karma would be balanced if your soul decided that spreading love and acceptance at the risk of being judged and harassed for it would balance the karma because that is how you would learn... that is my belief on karma. It is all about Universal order and balance... and tit for tat does not always achieve that.